[grandmasewing]

I have been sewing for almost 40 years. I am also a fan of O & S patterns, now using ‘some’ of them for my grandchilden.

I have made many of these designs some 35 years ago for my daughters.

I would have a pinaforte pattern and re draft all sorts of designs to make the dresses different. It isnt hard to have things look very similar to others. I attend lots of craft markets, and see the same patterns use by loads of sewing mums with an interest in sewing.

I have made the same pleated Pinaforte,for summer and winter, more times that I could count, some with tags over the pleats, some with ribbion ties, some with just buttons and bows over the pleats. Most times 3 pleats, some times more to give it a change.

The shorts I have also done a very long time ago, only diffence, I put the pockets at the front and not at the side.

Have a good look around at the summer (even winter) craft markets in your area….Many in Florida.

[Sarvi]

grandmasewing, I could certainly understand that over the course of 35 years, you’d see the same elements many times. That makes perfect sense. I have myself commented before on how some O+S patterns could be used as a starting point for moms to make their own versions of retail clothes, incorporating some details they like. Pinafores are a classic item, as you point out.

But for a single commercial website selling so few designs (I think I counted about five styles of dresses?), to have three or four copycat items all at once from a single, distinctive designer? I’m sure Liesl is not the first person to ever put three pleats down the center of a dress, but the O+S line definitely has a recognizable aesthetic that’s different from other things out there. Would you ever mistake an Ottobre pinafore for O+S, for example?

Off-topic, but I think that’s one of the reasons people here print and hand out cards promoting O+S — you feel a connection when somebody makes something that resonates with you, and fills a unique space — especially when that person is a working mom, not some kind of faceless corporation. That’s why it’s such a bummer to see this happen, in a way that it’s not when you see rows of knockoff Coach bags being sold out of the back of a van or something.

[claireabel]

Sarvi I agree with everything you’ve said in your post. It is pretty obvious that this website is selling clothes made from O+S patterns. Grandmasewing, yes, I agree that some patterns don’t really ‘belong’ to anyone (eg, a basic twirly skirt, or a pillowcase dress) but the patterns in question all have pretty distinctive features (the puppet show pockets, birthday party pleats and tabs, and the pants external pockets). There isn’t a shadow of doubt in my mind they were made using O+S patterns.

I hate this kind of thing. The fact O+S even offer a boutique sewer program is very generous and when people blatantly try to use someone else’s intellectual property for their own financial gain it just stinks.

Finally (and off topic) the fact this is an Australian company just makes me cringe. O+S is very popular here in Aus and I’m horrified that a local has done this.

[grandmasewing]

Ladies, I understand your comments, however I do not feel forum is the place for nasty comments, this not the way to go. I would love to share the pics I have of my very old childrens sewing, and you will see how very much the same most of it is.

After having a peek, I do beleive this isnt or wasnt a Company of huge mass productions.

If you google childrens pants and pleated pinnys/dresses, you will come across the same or very simlar patterns.

I had a pattern very simliar from the 1950’s. Many of the three or four pleats at the front for little girls also came from the orginal school uniform tunic.

There are may patterns out there with tag, ties, buttons across the pleats, chest or waist area.

There is also many UTube videos on how to make your own pleats.

And a Shirt is a Shirt.

It seems to me, that there is a grudge being held in the forum or maybe overseas.

In this day and age, and what we have all been through as a country ,that is sad.

It appears good constructive feedback has been lost.

My Last Say!

[Nicole]

I think what has happened here can be viewed in two ways. It is a huge compliment to Liesl and her brand that we all feel so protective of her designs and that they are so recognizable as Oliver+s.

Also , the internet is almost a little like a big country town, people notice stuff, do the right thing and everything will be okay.

[sewinginthecity]

I suppose I may have been harsh, grandmasewing, but I stand behind everything I’ve said. I worked for a major department store supplier, where all we did was knock off European designs. The head designer there would have been the first to tell you she was not a real designer. Like Sarvi, it bothers me that one small, family based company did not honor the wishes of another small, family based company. No one can control what happens to their creations when they are offered to the public. I just think it’s nice when people can honor the expressed wishes of someone else. Like Claireabel, I have no doubt they used O + S patterns, because even when design details are generic, like pleats, or cargo pockets, proportions and construction techniques bear the stamp of the designer. There is no doubt in my mind they used several O + S patterns.

My last say, as well.

[Anonymous]

Hi grandmasewing,

I have not read a single nasty comment on this or any other thread on this forum. The people on this forum are generous and caring and simply want to look out for Leisl’s best interest. This is because they admire her and genuinely care about her success. There is a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation regarding intellectual property in the area of clothing design and sewing pattern design. This is quite understandable because it is not obvious to anyone how the law is written. The law is often contrary to our sensibilities as to what is fair or right.

What you have explained very well in your comments is the very reason that there is no intellectual property protection for clothing design. Regardless, it just feels wrong to me and to many others if Liesl does not get credit for her design of the patterns when finished items are sold. All that being said, it is common practice for designers to offer boutique sewing licenses and for sewists to honor them.

Let’s just let people say how they feel and discuss the subject and let Liesl, Todd and their lawyers sort through how they choose to run their business. I think it was very kind for the original poster to share the information because she was looking out for Liesl.

[Anonymous]

By the way, good job to Liesl for publishing such nicely written and designed patterns that this website chose them for their clothing line!

[April Henry]

Grandmasewing, are you a frequent contributor to the flickr group that we might see some of your lovely work and get to know you by way of discussion elsewhere on this forum? (I tried to do a search to see if you’ve posted on any other garments, but this was the only topic that came up.) Most of us have the same user-names on flickr as we do on this forum, but sometimes they are different – however, we generally have come to know who one another is by way of our children’s garments. 😉 There has become a community of friendship and bond with us who enjoy O+S – we’ve seen each other’s children grow up, out and into new patterns; we’ve shared tips, helps and answered questions of sometimes late-night sewing moms (mums, for those in Australia, Canada, UK & elsewhere abroad). Perhaps we do not know who you are to understand your defense of something that by this network, appeared so obvious, especially when Liesl’s designs are somewhat trade-marked by the not-so-obvious details. Only those who are familiar and sew with her patterns regularly have become trained without even realizing it to spot a garment made from her patterns. (For example, I’m rather nitpicky with the itty-bitty details, sometimes to my detriment, but there are some things I picked up on right away about those shorts that are not necessarily indicative to the pocket placement.)

If this was your first time posting to the forum, welcome! We would love to see the things you have made! There are many here who also enjoy vintage patterns, so if you have pictures of some of the things you have sewn from many years ago, please share – we would all really enjoy the fun walk through the past and getting to know you.

[ozpatternmaker]

I’m the patternmaker who has done the patterns for the label in question. I have worked in the fashion industry for over 20 years, and have worked for many many childrens wear labels. Every season, I get many designers wanting patterns made, and they are all very similar in design. To suggest that the offending 3 styles were purchased from your website and completely copied and made up is ridiculous. The designer has sketched up her designs inspired by her own mothers creations when she was a child herself. I have made up the patterns from scratch using my personal blocks which I have created many years ago, and then the samples have been made, fitted and altered. I challenge you to purchase one of her creations, and see for yourself if it is a knock-off of O&S designs. This type of slandering other designers is un-called for without you even having proof. Dodgy?, I think that the people who are accusing this designer of copying are the dodgy ones!

[Anonymous]

Oh brother – this is not slander (rolling eyes). The original poster simply voiced a concern based on her understanding of the intellectual property rights. The idea that these patterns were copied is obviously not ridiculous, but quite a reasonable possibility. As you know, it is very common for this to be done. Walk into any discount store and you will see knock offs of all the designers’ ideas. I think this whole thread has gone astray. Sorry to see that people have gotten into such a ruffle over it.

[icicle]

Agreed, let’s move on, shall we?

[ozpatternmaker]

Yes I agree, but this type of accusation should be checked first before writing up, because it is very hurtful to the person on the receieving end and their reputation as a designer, as well as the patternmaker.

[sewinginthecity]

Everyone, I hate to drag this out, but I can’t help but ask:

Ozpatternmaker, why are the three styles in question no longer available for purchase on the website?

Just asking!

[ozpatternmaker]

Its not just those that are off the website, there is a lot that are not on the website, because they have all sold out, thats the reason.